About the feedback on the past couple of drops.

Topics: Service Factory Modeling Edition Forum
Jul 2, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Edited Jul 2, 2007 at 2:38 PM
The Service Factory Team,

About your comment in V3b87 release notes in below:

We've been pretty dissappointed in the amount of feedback we've gotten on the past couple of drops. Please remember, the feedback is the only thing that justifies the cost of doing these pre-releases. The feedback is the main thing that gives us the confidence it is worthy of shipping.

I am not sure how other participants feel about this question of yours. But last drops (38, 48, and 71) there were not that much new if you have following the drops from the begin of v3b19.

I do understand that you folks there are a very busy but I doubted or hesitated to create any new topics as I did not receive any reply or an update on the topic I created.
I believe this is a dialog and if I would get at least some reply or update on the topic/issue I created I would know that I am right direction, and this would personally encourage me to participate more.

Again, just a tought and I am not sure how other participant feels about this question of yours.

Jul 9, 2007 at 11:43 AM
I guess it would be better and easier to adopt these drops if they are out in predictable time frames like weekly drops or perhaps in two week period.
I think in terms of quality the most important thing in these drops is clear installation and de-installation so they don't affect VS 2005 being installed. The other issues are not so important.

So if I run into an issue with a factory I know it will be fixed in a week or two in most probability I can plan my factory using in dev projects.

Jul 10, 2007 at 9:03 PM
I agree with Leonid 100%.

Since the big assumption in the drops is that I have a real job, installation and uninstallation should be a breeze. If I have to do more than run an MSI to install and remove via Add/Remove Programs, I am not interested. Certainly if you want to give me a Virtual PC Image I can go for that, too.

Until installation and uninstallation is trivial, it is hard to justify working with v3 when v2 is working just fine. That being said, I wish I could play with v3 as it looks pretty nice based on some screencasts.




David Hayden
Microsoft MVP C#

Jul 12, 2007 at 7:14 PM

LeonidShirmanov wrote:
... the most important thing in these drops is clear installation and de-installation ...

DavidHayden wrote:
I agree with Leonid 100%.

I hear you guys loud and clear. Thank you for letting us know how important this is. As a result, we're going to give this the highest priority on the next iteration so we can improve the installation experience.

The rationale for the source drops was ... we know people are going to want to change the factory ... to that end, we created a number of extensibility walkthroughs ... so if you are going to have to build anyway ...

Obviously, this does not apply to everyone and a good [un]installation experience is very important. Got it!

Alexander, I really want to thank you for starting this thread. Although, I didn't get the sense that the installer was the blocker for you.

alexanderQX wrote:
... last drops (38, 48, and 71) there were not that much new ...

We feel we've made some really substantial changes since the first drop (project mapping, data contract collections & enums, validation framework, host model, code generation, etc). So this delta causes me to be concerned for a couple of reasons. (1) It is very important to us to be sure we are working on the most important thing at any given time. If you are making the statement above because you don't think this is happening, please set us straight. (2) I may not be clear or comprehensive enough during each release when I'm explaining what is new and what it means to the big picture. Again, if you think this might be the issue, let me know.

alexanderQX wrote:
I believe this is a dialog and if I would get at least some reply or update on the topic/issue I created I would know that I am right direction.

On this point, I would ask that you please accept my sincere apology. I agree this is a dialog and my not responding is definitely not intentional. I value all of your feedback and consider you personally a valuable member of this community. I'll try to do a better job responding and letting you know the impact you are having on this project - because you are.

As far as the issues (Issue Tracker) go, we are still working out the best way to be transparent here. As you may know, codeplex uses Visual Studio Team Foundation Server for its backend issue tracker. The Service Factory team in patterns & practices also uses TFS, but it is a completely different server and different template. Any synchronization (you can see we've tried some of this) is manual and is a complete pain in the ass. For future projects we are seriously considering just using the codeplex infrastructure, but that doesn't help us for this project. My questions to you and the larger community would be "If we published all of our issues for the project, would you use them? If so, how?" Because we want to encourage the community to submit issues so we can take action on them and update the status. This will also help each individual see how they are making a difference. Of course this goes true for both issues and features. I think the voting feature of the Issue Tracker is awesome - I'd love to see people using to help us prioritize.

Thanks again,